ST. PAUL, Minn. — In the St. Paul mayor’s first extended public comments since the police chief filed a lawsuit against her, she said he had pushed back when she asked for information about police operations.

Kaohly Her, who took office in January, has been asking questions of all city departments, and Chief Axel Henry didn’t receive them well from the beginning, according to a person with knowledge of their interactions.

But a police department spokesperson said Henry provides the mayor with data weekly via email, sometimes multiple times a week, so any allegation about not providing information openly and transparently is false.

Henry filed a lawsuit last Wednesday against Her and the city claiming sexual harassment and retaliation. He alleged she put her hand on his thigh in meetings, brought up that the fire union endorsed her mayoral campaign while the police union did not and made jokes and comments of a sexual nature to both Henry and his officers.

Former St. Paul City Council Member Dai Thao, who has a YouTube show, posted on Saturday an hour-long conversation with Her. Thao’s videos are in Hmong and the Pioneer Press hired a certified Hmong interpreter to translate parts of the video.

Thao said he invited Her to come on his show. During the wide-ranging conversation, Her explained that she works long days, including going to nighttime community events. She follows up on emails and phone calls into the evening.

Her said Henry had told her that, as the mayor, she could call him anytime. She said she had called him about work matters, but he turned it around and said it was her wanting to have a personal conversation with him.

Henry’s lawsuit said Her called him about 8:30 p.m. on Feb. 24 and he missed the call because he was sleeping, as he typically wakes up around 4 a.m.

The following day, Her asked Henry why he did not answer the call. He said he was already in bed and she responded, “You’re trying to ignore me,” the lawsuit’s complaint said.

“When Chief Henry asked why he would ignore a call from the Mayor, she sidestepped the question and responded that the two of them needed to have a ‘close relationship,'” Henry’s attorney, Chris Madel, wrote. “Mayor Her’s tone throughout this exchange struck Chief Henry as similar to that of a jilted or slighted high-school girlfriend.”

Mayor says she was raised to have an open heart

Madel said Wednesday he will be filing an amended complaint in the lawsuit and “we will be adding statements that Mayor Her gave” in the YouTube interview to it. He didn’t specify what they would be.

On April 1, Madel wrote in a letter to the city attorney that Henry had decided “to designate himself as a formal complainant against Mayor Her for illegal employment practices against city employees, including himself.”

The city hired a St. Cloud-based law firm to conduct an investigation. The investigation did not substantiate allegations that Her “engaged in sexual harassment of any city employee,” but found she “engaged in offensive and inappropriate behavior,” according to a summary released Sept. 18 by the mayor’s office.

In the video, Thao brought up the investigation and asked the mayor what she learned from the situation.

Her said her parents taught her as a Hmong daughter that when people come to your house, you need to cook for them, look after them and give them a place to sleep if they don’t have one. Because of this, Her said she learned she needed to open her heart.

But Her said she thinks she should have been more cautious because she notices in the American culture that opening your heart is used as a weak point and weaponized against people. She said she wondered if she needed to distance herself from people.

Thao told the Pioneer Press that Hmong and English do not always translate word-for-word, and meaning can be carried through tone, qualifiers, cultural references and context that may not come through in a literal English translation. He said that was especially important in this interview because some of the discussion was rooted in Hmong cultural experiences, including how Hmong women are perceived, how care and hospitality are expressed, and how women in leadership can be treated.

Thao wonders whether mayor was looked down on

Her recounted that when she asked for information about police operations, Henry asked Her’s assistant why she wanted to know this information. She responded that as the mayor she wanted to be able to address issues. Henry said he was the police chief and didn’t have to tell Her that information, which led to a disagreement about the issue, according to Her.

Thao noted for people watching the video that the police chief works for the mayor, and a mayor who has an interest in working on problems needs to have a better understanding of the crimes happening. Thao said he wondered whether Henry might already have been looking down on the mayor. He said he offered opinions that were informed in part by his experience as a community organizer and by serving in St. Paul government.

Henry’s lawsuit alleged that he learned that Her requested, and was being provided, confidential law enforcement information “in violation of Minnesota law.” The information allegedly shared with Her was not included in the lawsuit, but will be included during pretrial discovery, according to the complaint.

Denies accusations

During the ICE raids in St. Paul earlier this year, Her said she saw the city’s officers were working hard in a tough situation and she brought egg rolls to them. When an animal died at the Como Zoo, she brought food and cards to the zookeepers. She said she has love for everyone, not only the residents, but also employees.

Her said she told Public Work employees they’ve been doing good work and asked how long they’d work for the city. They told her they would stay as long as she is mayor because they like her and they know that, as a mayor, she loves them, Her said. Her said she regarded that as good until a person thought it meant something else.

The police chief’s accusations that Her wanted to date him or was going to retaliate by removing him from his job are not true, Her said in the interview with Thao.

She said it will be difficult for her to try to win back people’s trust because she can’t speak about the investigation, but she said her parents always taught her to just do her job and work hard and the results will show who you really are.

She also said this is a difficult time because the accusations hurt and make her feel shame for herself and her family.

Her said she’s asking people to give her a chance, to look at her going to work every day and trying to bring business to the city and fighting for constituents. In going to events, she said people tell her they see her in the community so much more than the former mayor. She asked people to judge her on her work and not what they hear in the media.

Thao, who said he was making a broader observation about the experience of women in American society and leadership, told viewers that some people in the United States look down on women. He specified he was not suggesting that was the case in this situation. He asked Her how she would continue working with the police chief during this time.

Her said even though there has been trouble between her and the chief, she continues her work not only with the chief but also with deputy chiefs and commanders. Rank-and-file officers have told Her they haven’t seen a mayor who cares for them as much as she does, and she makes sure to go to events to support them, she said.

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